Elias Mandala:Good afternoon Mr. Alabi Mitawa?
Alabi Mitawa:Good afternoon Sir
EM:First I want to thank you so much for coming all the way from the hills. I know exactly what that means for you to come this far. This is shows great heart of support to this project. We do not take it for granted especially this being rainy season.
EM:Like we did last time, I want to request for your consent to ask you questions based on our last interview. Do you give me consent to record you and share it with other researchers?
AM:No problem at all. Go ahead.
EM:Secondly, I want to wish you a happy new year. We are in a new year. We thank God and to request Him to grant all our new year wishes
AM:Thank you so much. I appreciate
EM:So how do you get here? Did you come by motorcycle or car?
AM:Today I used motorcycle
EM:How much does it cost you to get here?
AM:By motorcycle is K4000 and 3500 by car. So return is K8000
AM:Yes, it is not easy for me considering my age and being rainy season.
EM:You are a strong man, Chief. May be you are this strong because of the hardship experienced while in the mines. Not so?
AM:Yes, that experience ohm has helped me
EM:By the way how many journeys so far have travelled?
EM:Last time I was a bit confused on the journeys. You can now clarify. When were these journeys?
AM:First, I went in 1964, came back in 1966, second journey, 1966 and back 1968, went back 1969 and back in 1971.
EM:Oh now is clearer. Now this interview is a follow-up to the one that we had last year, if by chance you forgot anything you have an opportunity to let me know. First I want to know where your grand grandparents came from. Would you know or heard from your parents?
AM:They came from within Malawi. From Makunganya, Traditional Authority Mponda, Mangochi district.
EM:It is fair to conclude that your clan came from Makunganya right?
EM:This mean your grandparents bore your dad at Makunganya? And he bore you too?
EM:Would know when your grandparents were born?
AM:I would lie if I tell you the when he was born. My dad did not tell me when. I know he died when I was already born
EM:Oh so, you saw him and met him?
AM:Yes. He died when I was a man enough. My dad too died when I was a grown up. So I knew him very well unlike my grandfather. At my grandfather I could at times go just for food and ran away, I could not ask for many things and that is why I have less information about my grandparents.
EM:Oh ok. So tell me what was his profession?
AM:My grandfather was weaving MPHASA, or mikeka. I grew up seeing him doing that. He did this for selling. He was also a farmer. He cultivated and grew crops for his family.
EM:Wow! So he combined both? This was a trend not so, that one could do agriculture at the same time do weaving business just to sustain family income?
AM:Yes. This was long time ago that time food was in abundance and Mkeka weaving was so popular with villagers
EM:Wow! This period could well be around 1800s?
AM:Yes. This was a long time ago. Imagine I was born in 1944. These things must have happened long time ago.
EM:If you were born in 1944, when was your granddad born?
AM:Aaaah will be lying if I say he was born on such a date. I even don’t know when my dad was born. And for your information, when I started travelling to WNLA, South Africa, my dad was already dead except my mom.
EM:Oh am sorry to hear about that. And so your granddad was basically weaving and farming as his profession?
AM:Yes, that’s what I know off.
EM:Going back to their origins. Where did your granddad’s parents come from? In case you may know.
AM:Most people were saying their parents came from Mozambique. Before settling in Malawi, they came from Mozambique. But my parents were born here.
EM:Why did they migrate from Mozambique to Malawi? Would you know?
AM:Ohm they did not really tell us the main reason for their migration to Malawi from Mozambique
EM:So they did not share their reason?
AM:No. But that was a really long time ago. However, if you cross the border you will find chiefs on that side have similar names with those of this side. You find similar names, beliefs and types of food. But you would not go there and tell them that we are brothers or sisters because of the names.
EM:So this means that most of people here (Malawi) came from Mozambique?
EM:But why did most people moved to Malawi from Mozambique? What reasons do they give?
AM:I think people that side were being forced out by rulers of that side. So it was easy to come over this side. You know, then there were no waters on the river. It was dry. People could just walk over.
EM:You mean the lake was dry?
AM:Yes was dry and this river was running out of water and people could easily cross over. This is why many people also left the area to other areas like Mayani, in Dedza. Most of those people are from here.
EM:So do these still consider this place their home? And why did they move from here?
AM:The elders might know the reason why they moved.
EM:So, am I right to conclude that, your grand grandfather came from Mozambique, though you do not know why they migrated to Malawi? Both your grandfather and your father were born in Malawi. Lastly you were also born in Malawi?
AM:That’s correct. My father, his father and I were born in Malawi.
EM:In your family history has there been anyone who ever migrated from here to another country or region for the reasons of employment purposes, war, or other reasons?
AM:In my family it was my aunt, elder sister of my mother who migrated together with her husband to Zimbabwe. After them, it was me who also migrated to South Africa.
EM:Would you know why they migrated to Zimbabwe?
AM:They went to Zimbabwe to look for work as Malawi then were not giving job opportunities as was with Zimbabwe.
EM:So did this migration influence your own flight to South Africa?
AM:It did but just to an extent. The major influence was my friends who went to WNLA and came back. They truly influenced me. The stuff that they brought and the vibe at their homes really influenced me.
EM:Were married before you left for South Africa?
AM:Yes I was married when I left for South Africa.
EM:So you did leave your sweetheart behind and went to work in the mines in South Africa?
AM:I had to leave that I would make them happy. And she was happy as she envied the wives of those who had traveled to before me.
EM:So where are your parents? Are they alive?
AM:Yes they are alive. They are in Katema, where I come from.
EM:So all members of your family are based in Katema?
AM:Yes that’s where they are, all of them.
EM:So where were you born? And when?
AM:I was born at Katema. I was born in 1944.
EM:Wow so how old is you now? 78?
EM:I see. But what occupation were your grandfather?
AM:When I was born I found my granddad and family farming, in big way. They did not do anything other jobs. They were farmers.
EM:Wow! It was farming throughout in the family. But apart from you and your aunt who left for Zimbabwe has there been anyone who left for greener pastures abroad and within?
AM:Yes in my family it was only me and my aunt who took a worthy risk.
EM:And you left in 1964 when Malawians just gained independence? And after that Masauko Chipembere and his cronies rose against Kamuzu Banda, the life president, what side did you take?
AM:Yes. We were only hearing about that, and never met or encounter them. But it was big news. But I didn’t get involved. Also when this became hot in the country, I was then in South Africa, and didn’t affect me and you confirm this with my passport that I got from Wilenski (First Prime Minister or governor for Nyasaland), that was issued in 1964. I used this to go to South Africa.
EM:Where were you receiving this document?
AM:We used to receive this document at the labour office. They had all the necessary documents. This was given to us travelling to WNLA only. When you receive that small document, it means the journey is at hand. You have been certified. You are fit and criminal record free to travel to work in the WNLA MINES.
EM:So you were issued this document (travel permit) on August, 20, 1964? Taking picture. Where did you get this issued?
AM:Yes. I received this in Blantyre as a signal of confirming me that I am fit to travel to South Africa under WNLA
EM:Done now with pictures. So thanks for your patience. Now tell me, what or who influenced you to make this decision to emigrate?
AM:I was influenced by those who went to work in the mines and came back with a lot of good stuffs such bicycles, radios etc. I wanted to also go and bring such stuff for my family and myself. It was like seeing your friend marrying a beautiful woman and you start imagining yourself too having a woman of your own. That’s what was happening to me.
EM:So why did you choose to go to South Africa instead of Rhodesia, Zimbabwe?
AM:I wanted South Africa as people and friends who came back enticed me with their stuffs. They brough blanket (Tchale), nice clothes and watches. Oh you could see the returnees with labeled watches such as Rotary, Loris, Oris, very powerful watches. Oh I was really enticed with the way they twisted their arms to showcase their watches……oh very proud guys. So I told my wife the decision that I am also going to WNLA. My wife reserved for a minute. She was afraid of the bad stories being shared by many who are in South Africa. But I had no choice but to convince her to respect my decision to go to work in the mines.
EM:You mean your wife did not want you to travel to South Africa? Why?
AM:At first she was afraid I was going to die in the mines. She knew that many have died in the mines. She was afraid she was going to lose me. The other fear was that I am going to marry someone else there. But I convinced her that I was going to come back with special properties like bicycles, GUMBA-GUMBA radio, blankets, and shoes. These are items that that also convinced my wife to let me go.
EM:These returnees really impacted on you?
AM:Yes. You know when going they would tell, my friend, we are going back to South Africa to make more money. This message was killing me. I took away all the fears and I decided to join them. When I came back also my peers admired me including my wife.
EM:Tell me two or three names of those who influenced your decision to go to WNLA? Names of those who came back home from WNLA in your village.
AM:Ah! I can’t remember any but they were many. In my village, I was the first one to do so. So I cant name any.
EM:Can you name the stuff that really attracted you to go to South Africa?
AM:Bicycle, blankets, watch.
EM:On the watches you had named them can you name them again?
AM:Loris, Lanco, Rotary, and Oris oh these labeled watches really attracted me
EM:So you imagined yourself to also wear them some day?
AM:Yes. We were really enjoying our youth then
EM:So bicycles didn’t attract you that much? What so far were the brands of bicycles that were popular then?
AM:Oh bicycles mostly were Raji, Raleigh, yes they also attracted me, sporty ones two were there. It was so much exciting.
EM:So when you went to South Africa finally, did you manage to get those flush watches?
AM:Yes. I did manage to buy Oris.
AM:Exactly that is what I got.
EM:So then did your heart desire met?
EM:So what else did you buy?
AM:Bicycle, shoes, oh yes I did get that. This was at the first journey
AM:On the second journey, I bought bed and mattress and the third time I bought a radio.
EM:Wow! That is great. So did you buy gumba-gumba radio?
AM:No I bought supersonic radio not gumba gumba.
EM:Wow, so you changed the picture of your home?
AM:Oh yes, I really made my home attractive and livable. The bicycle is parked there, good sound at the back, even my wife when she is out there fetching water her friends envied her that her husband is back home from Johannesburg. She felt very happy that she is my wife.
EM:When you made the first journey to South Africa, were you married? Did you have a child?
AM:Yes I was married but didn’t have a child then
EM:So you left for the second time
AM:Yes, and I left her pregnant. She bore me a son while away during the second journey
EM:Oh okay he was born while you were away?
AM:Yes. But then I left for the third time, and my son passed on while I was already in South Africa.
EM:Oh sorry. That must have been difficult for you.
AM:Yes. That was painful especially that I was away. Then when I came back, WNLA was curtailed. Then TEBA started recruiting, but I did not go with it. So I stayed home and began my family again. That was when started bringing up my family.
EM:Was your son ill that he died?
AM:Yes he was ill. And my wife alone could not do much, unfortunately he died
EM:How did that affect you especially that you were away?
AM:It was sad. But you know the message about the death reached me after weeks, when he was already buried. I could not call or talk with my wife or anyone in the family for more details. But then I had to send money for the service, though it was late.
EM:Sorry to hear this. But what did you do when the message reached you?
AM:I could only send money for the service, though it was late. Those days, cloth for embalming the body, they had to borrow from the shops, so the money I sent them was to reimburse for those expenditures.
EM:Oh that made sense even when the money delayed. But how did your wife feel about the loss and that you were away?
AM:It was really difficult for her. But she had to grow up as these are the normal human situations. But elders advised her not to sleep with other men during this period till I come back. So when I came back I went to stay at my family’s home until we both have been cleared traditionally. Then we could come together as wife and husband.
EM:Is that so? Explain more on how this happened?
AM:When I arrived, my parents asked me to call upon my marriage patrons/advisors to meet my wife’s patrons too. When they meet they would send messengers to me and to my wife. The messengers were to ask us if we slept with other women or men. When they have finalized this exercise and found out that none of us cheated, we could then be united with each other, and exchange our matrimonial vows.
EM:So after this cultural ritual was done, what else?
AM:After such ritual, they found us all okay; we were joined together again as husband and wife. We started living together and started having children.
EM:Oh thanks for sharing this information. Now, that you have come from the first journey, you found your family and left again for the second time. Then a third trip as well was achieved. While away were you able to send cash to your family? To your wife?
AM:Oh! Yes I had to be sending her some money to take care the affairs of the family.
EM:What was your wife spending this money on?
AM:She spent the money on clothing, food and some business. I had also advised her to use the sparingly. But she should not just keep it, she would use it when necessary.
EM:Tell me how much were you able to send then?
AM:Most k3,K3.5 or K4. This was a lot of money then.
EM:But were you instructing her on what to buy? Or you relied on her wisdom?
AM:True I never instructed her on what to do with the money. Instead she bought things that were needed at home and what she needed.
EM:Between you and your wife, what mode of communication were you using to reach other?
AM:It was only through letters.
EM:So you did not use telephone calls?
AM:Oh no. we could not use that as we lived far away from town hence they would not come to town for the phone calls. It was for this reason we communicated only through letters. The post office was very efficient then. It managed to connect us
AM:Yes and the person to receive the money I could send, needed to come with someone who had paid his tax. Without this confirmation tax card, the post office would not process the sent money. It was that bad. Your own money was restricted. This card acted as Identity card. The post office workers needed the details and numbers on the tax card to release the money to the intended.
EM:Very interesting. So how long did it take you or your wife to receive the letters?
AM:We were sending through the post office in South Africa. They would take it also to Malawian post office. The messenger would take each letter to the specific area, home, T/A, and village. It was very well coordinated and executed their duties exceptionally.
EM:So tell me how did you feel to receive a letter from your wife?
AM:Eeeeh a letter from my wife oh! It meant something else, eeeh.
EM:Please describe for me
AM:We used to sleep on double decker bed. So when we knocked off, we are in our rooms, the police would come delivering letters in specific rooms, and specific bed. So when you come, and you see there is a letter addressed to me. If the letter is not written with a cross, we could immediately open, and read it, to see it is coming from my darling; reading through the love words, oh, we could shout allowed that others should know that my loved one, my wife has written me. They all knew that I received from my wife, love of my life. It was the most exciting moment. The hardship could be forgotten. Sometimes we could ask our wives/loved ones to be send pictures. That added to the excitement. We could even fail to go to eat. The letter was on its own making us full.
EM:So, what was their excitement as well when they received your letters?
AM:Ohmm they were also excited but they would be the ones to explain that …[laughs]. Even their friends knew that she received a letter from her husband in South Africa. They announce. Oh! My husband is alive, still loving me. They would shine to their friends. “So he wrote a letter? How long?” she would respond. “Yes, my sister, a very long one, He’s fine and still looking forward to come home to see me.” It was a happy moment to her too.
EM:That was very exciting indeed. So when you come back from the mines, you come in the hostel and you a letter without a cross, your mood is excited?
AM:Oh! So, excited. Even if I was tired from the work in the mine, I would get strange energy from nowhere but this letter from my loved one. Imagine I could either delay to go to get food or even forgetting food itself. Felt very full already.
AM:Even if I went to the kitchen to get food, the story would be of the letter. “My brother, my wife sent me a beautiful letter with beautiful photo. I am so excited” and we would joke that wow, you better go home now to make children, the lady is ready. That is what a letter from a wife would do.
EM:That was great. So marriages were working through letters. They would connect the distanced love
AM:Exactly. Letters had huge impact on our welfare.
EM:Again on the letter from your wife or relatives with cross sign meant what?
AM:Those letters with crosses simply meant they are containing message of death of a relative back home. It was a sad moment, unlike those without a cross. They weren’t bringing that kind of excitement at all.
EM:Oh okay. I see. Let’s proceed. In the 1960s and most especially in 1964 before you left for South Africa, here in Mangochi especially, there was some sort of revolt against Kamuzu by few of his cabinet ministers. One of them was Henry Masauko Chipembere. He was a son of Mangochi. Did you in any way take part by supporting either Chipembere or MCP’s leader, Dr. Kamuzu Banda?
AM:Yes I heard about it. But I was not involved at all. Violence was there. People were killed here but I was only one of the observers not necessarily taking part. Actually we did not understand what was going on. Even I did not know who was tight or wrong. In any case my whole attention was to travel to South Africa.
EM:So you did not join the MCP and attack the revolting ministers?
AM:By the way we were all MCP by force. We were not allowed to support anything but MCP.
EM:So, there was no one in your family who participated during these uprisings?
AM:Oh no. I was the eldest so if anything it would have involved me. They were all young. So no one did join these violent activities.
EM:So what do you remember so far about these events? You told me other people died in Mangochi. Describe for me please.
AM:Actually, we were only hearing of the violence. We did not see it happening. So from a far, we were told that those expelled cabinet ministers are coming this side, to our district. We all wanted to go see them, Kanyama Chiume, Masauko Chipembere, Chisiza, and Orton Chirwa. They were very popular. But some of us were running away as we knew there would be chaos as MCP mercenaries would be countering them. So we could only hear of the violence and disruptions.
EM:So, Kamuzu after the WNLA plane crush in 1974 stopped the contracts with WNLA. No one was allowed to travel to South Africa to work for WNLA. How did this decision affect you?
AM:This affected me badly. I was used to working for WNLA. Remember, most Malawians had no alternative for jobs. Most of us relied on WNLA contracts. That’s the only source of income and capital to start businesses etc. It was a difficult decision and we could not do anything about it.
EM:Yes, I have heard many people complaining. Meaning they were badly affected, as WNLA provided jobs, a living to many. Then the abrupt stop. So in 1977, am told Malawi government opened new ties with TEBA. Did you travel to Teba?
AM:No. I didn’t travel for Teba
EM:Why didn’t you travel for Teba?
AM:No. when they reopened as TEBA, I did not get moved at all. I decided to stay put instead. I did feel like moving around that period
EM:So when you settled back at home, after all your WNLA years, how many children did your bear?
AM:After the death of my first born who died while I was away, I gave birth to 8 children,
EM:Wow! Such a big family not so considering in the middle of you had some good six years away from home.
AM:Oh yes. Imagine that. Now I have big children. Like one is always on the radio. May be you hear him talking. I am a proud dad.
EM:Wow. You sound happy for him. Where is he and does what?
AM:He is working in Kasungu District; He is the one making me live comfortably
EM:So your children all went to school?
AM:Not all of them but this son and the first girl. These went to school. They are all doing well. The son works and does business. The same applies to my daughter. She runs her own businesses but she is married. Yes am enjoying life
EM:Tell me in all your honest, did WNLA journeys profit you? Describe how.
AM:Definitely, those journeys really profited me. I managed to get labeled watch, shoes, clothes.
EM:What about education? Did you use the WNLA money to educate your children?
AM:Yes. The children I was telling you they all went to school because of WNLA. Like the girl, went up to Form One and got married. I did not stand on her way. She went and has a good family.
EM:So, you would be one of those men who would thank WNLA for the transformation in your family?
AM:Exactly, and I still thank them for that. Even though during those we were not building iron sheet houses, but people would appreciate and admire that this home is living a good life due to WNLA. Our homes were shining within the villages. One could tell.
EM:That’s a positive comment about WNLA. Now most young men especially from this district or region migrate to other countries. Most of them migrate to South Africa. What advice would you give them?
AM:True. Most of them they go there to see not advance their lives. Imagine they do not even go the mines. But I am not convinced or attracted by most of them. They come back and find us still looking good than them. Wearing nice clothes and eating well, shirt and clean jacket on top. They even wonder how come we still look smart than them? If anything, they are able to build better houses as it is easy to send money to their relatives. With good plans, they build good house with good and good finishing from South Africa.
EM:So, what would be your advice to them as mostly are young people?
AM:These boys aren’t that humble to listen to the elders. So it would be hard to advise them
EM:I think, these are the questions I wanted to ask you. But before I end this conversation, please if you have anything to add please go ahead.
AM:Ah I would wrong to say I have anything to ask or to add. But anytime you want me will be available for a chat of this nature.
EM:Oh ok, but I want to ask you one more question. You said you are married. Is your wife alive?
EM:Oh! Fantastic. Does she appreciate the transformation that has taken within your family through WNLA?
AM:Oh okay, actually the wife that I had the time I was travelling to WNLA, we separated. The one I have now is new one. But with the first one we have 8 children, but four have passed on. But right now am left with only four children.
AM:But even now we still talk and visit each other because of the children we had. We did not leave each in bad terms.
EM:What? How does the new wife feel about that connection?
AM:There is no bitterness. Actually she also goes there to chat even during ceremonies. There is no animosity at all.
EM:Wow! This is very strange. Anyway, I want to thank you so much for your time. My apologies for not considering how far your come from. I would have started with you that you can leave earlier considering the distance and being rainy season.
AM:No problem, I will see when I get at the stage and if I find a motorcycle will go and get there after 7pm. But if I find a car, will reach there after 10pm, that’s late and would prefer to sleep over and leave in the morning.
EM:Oh! Sorry to hear that. I wish you travel safely. If you fail to leave, please let me know. Thank you so much.
AM:Thank you too for remembering us, above all reminding us of our past and histories. I can’t appreciate you enough.
