Elias P.K. Mandala (EM):Today is Saturday, 8th July, 2023. I am here in Mangochi to chat with women whose husbands travelled to South Africa, under WNLA arrangement/contracts between 1939 to 1975. Some of these women’s men traveled beyond WNLA to TEBA from 1977 to 1988. So these women have rich and personal stories to share.
EM:I want to welcome you all to this group interview. This time, I will have a group interview where each one of you will be given opportunity to express your experiences. You will also be given opportunity to ask questions. At any point you feel to share please come in with your contribution. Stop me and share your experience.
These experiences are vital to our learning, for the future of our kids. They will learn the brevity of their grandfathers, leaving the country for greener pastures, to lay a good foundation for their children. Their family and grandchildren are now enjoying their lives because these grandfathers sacrificed themselves a lot of things to make sure they set out a good foundation for their children and possibly clan.
Therefore, I want you all to be open and free to share your stories based on my questions/ though not restricted to share other key elements/facts behind your stories. This sharing will help us keep your stories, and that of your husbands. The future generation will appreciate these stories. If you hide these rich stories, the future generation will not have no bank of stories to learn from. You just told me that you lost the letters that you exchanged with your husbands while away. We all lost a huge treasure.
All:Indeed we lost them because we never realized of their importance. (No chidwi). We lost them as something of no use.
EM:You see. If only you held them at heart today we could have been reading them, bringing back the lost memories. So today your stories might be telling me, but would in the future benefit a lot of people. So your stories will be kept very safe on the internet. So your openness will be greatly appreciated.
Therefore, before I come to the main interview, I need to establish with you a few things. Firstly, be aware that whatever we are doing here will be recorded. Secondly, all the recorded information will be kept very safe on the internet. That way, all the recorded material shall be made accessible to all interested parties be it lecturers, students of all walks of life, our children. That way, your grandchildren will not be strangers to such stories themselves when asked in the future.
When I get up to here, can I get your consent to record and keep these rich stories online, on the internet where all interested stakeholders can ably access?
All:Very possible and you can go ahead.
EM:Please respond with energy
All:Yes go ahead and do like that. (Consent)
EM:These interviews are not necessarily mine. I am conducting them on behalf of Professor Julie Weise. Do you agree that she can also access them, use them for her books and articles in the future?
All:Yes, she can have access to any document she would like to have.
EM:What I mean by asking you all is consent. We don’t want that in the future you come accuse us for keeping materials you never consented to.
All:So far we don’t have any problem with that. You may advise her to have full access to the material shared.
EM:Now am ready to ask you to first introduce yourselves, individually, where you came from, your husband’s name and possibly when they travelled, and how often did he travel (no. of journeys). For instance, if he traveled in 1961 and back in 1962, then in 1963 and back in 1964, that would mean your husband traveled twice.
I will start with you madam.
EM:What village are you coming from?
TS:From Mkanjo Village, TA: Mwambo, District Zomba.
EM:So what brought you to Mangochi?
TS:After all the travels, we migrated to Mangochi for labour. We ended settling here
EM:Is your husband alive?
TS:No he’s dead. Died two years ago (2021)
EM:Sorry to hear of the loss. So would you remember when he travelled and how many journeys?
TS:Yes I do remember. He traveled twice. The first journey was in 1960. So he came back in 1962.
EM:So when did he go back?
TS:He went back just after a month. Meaning he left in 1962 and back in 1964.
EM:Do you remember when he was born?
TS:No I can’t remember as I lost all the documents.
EM:How many children did he live you with?
TS:He left me with six (6) children. Unfortunately, I lost one
EM:Thank you so much for this detailed introduction. We will meet later after other introductions.
Aisha Bakali (AB):My name is Aisha Bakali
EM:Oh these are Mangochi names
AB:From T/A Mponda, Mangochi
AB:Oh no his dead. He died in 1999
EM:How many journeys did Mr. Pande Bakali travel?
AB:1964-1966, and went again in 1967-1969.
EM:So he made two WNLA journeys. So did he go again for TEBA?
AB:Yes he did and stayed only for 9 months and that was in 1973.
EM:But that’s still WNLA?
EM:And he came back early due to plane crash. In that case, he made 3 journeys. How many children so did you have with him?
AB:He left me with six (6) children and are all alive
Delia Baston Mawilo (DB):I am Delia Baston Mawilo.
DB:His name was Baston Mawilo.
EM:Do you know when he was born?
DB:Yes, he was born in 1952, in Chalingana Village, T/A Changata, Thyolo District.
EM:Very interesting that you people came from different districts though of the same traditional cultures (matrilineal). So how many journeys did he go?
DB:Under WNLA he only went once. From 1970-1972.
EM:Oh okay. Then he continued with TEBA?
DB:Yes he went for TEBA from 1978 till the closure.
EM:Is your husband alive?
DB:No he died sometime back on 25 May. 2014
EM:So all these journeys were happening while in Thyolo or in Mangochi?
DB:All of them while in Thyolo District. We only shifted when the government had established a find a place project. So we decided to come and settle here.
EM:That’s great. So next?
MB:I am Modesta Lingiston Brahim.
EM:Wow this is very Islamic name?
MB:Indeed that’s obvious Sir.
EM:And what is the name of your husband?
MB:Unfortunately he passed on a few years ago.
EM:Where was he from? His village?
MB:He was from Supelo Village, T/A Chimaliro, Thyolo District
EM:Wow, many people who originated from Thyolo but opted to settle here in Mangochi. How many journeys did he make to WNLA?
MB:He made two journeys, one WNLA and one TEBA
EM:would you remember the years he travelled?
MB:He travelled first in 1972-1974 under WNLA and 1977-1978 under TEBA.
EM:I see. Did he leave you with children?
MB:Yes. He left me with 10 children but two passed on. I now have only 8 children.
DB:But you did not ask me about if I had children on not?
EM:Oh really? How I did I miss that? Let me check. For sure, I did. My apology. So how many do you have?
DB:Oh I have six (6) but I lost two. Now I have only 4 children.
EM:Thank you so much for reminding me. Let me go back to you Mrs. Brahim. Why did you move to Mangochi?
MB:We had no land to settle in Thyolo, so we had to buy a land here in Mangochi, and settled. We also bought land in Monkeybay (lakeside).
EM:I think I have now known each of you. Anyone who joins us later, will do due diligence.
By the way, I am Elias Mandala, research coordinator; I work with various researchers around the global. I am Malawian, born and bred in Nsanje district.
I will get your further details like phones at the end of the interviews and whatever you many have.
TS:That’s fine. But some of us do not have phones. We communicate through our block leaders. Some of us too are representatives of the women of migrant workers.
EM:Is that so? So you are actually put in blocks? And you are actually leaders of these blocks?
TS:Exactly, we represent other women
EM:I want to remind you that this interview and any other material from this group meeting will be shared to other scholars, published in books, and online (websites) etc. Would you again confirm your consent?
All:Oh, yes please go ahead.
EM:Thank you so much. We now can start our meeting. I will start putting questions across and anyone who feels ready to start responding please do so. Each of you will be able to respond to the same question.
Would you, please tell me how was your childhood like before meeting your husband?
TS:I came from a very poor family, and I had to work on various piecework jobs for food. My parents were small-scale farmers who had very little to offer. Sometimes, we had to go through eating cassava roots (makaka) because we could not afford decent food. This is why I didn't have the opportunity to receive an education. That was my childhood till I met my husband and started my own family.
EM:Thank you for sharing. Anyone ready to share her story?
DB:In my case, were in a family of four. Two boys and two girls. However, my younger sister passed on while young. When we were growing up the three of us, we used to help our parents with any piecework they may find. Mostly were in the farms and that’s the way we got food and little money to buy other needs. We used to grow seasonal foods like maize and cassava. The extra we could sell to buy our needs like soap and clothes. So this is how we grow up until I got married my husband
EM:So, family, was like a rescue from family poverty?
DB:(laughs). It may sound like that.
EM:Okay. So, did you go to school? Or attend any form of education?
DB:Not all. I did not considering the level of poverty at home.
EM:Oh yeah. How about you Mrs. TS, did you manage to attend school?
TS:(Laughs), not really as I only reached and ended at STD 1.
EM:Wow! At least you could read and write.
TS:Yes, and I could only write my name
EM:Now I turn to you. How was your childhood?
MB:As for me I had a very terrible childhood. When I was born in 1965, the doctor named me. This pissed off my father to the point of denying me as his daughter. According to my mother, the doctor realized how I was going to grow up considering that my father refused me. She decided to buy me various clothes of different ages. She gave them to my mom. In 1971, I had to start school though I was not treated like the other children in the family. But I pushed myself and I dropped in standard 7. I had to do piece works while I was really young to afford my clothes etc. This treatment forced me to get married while very young. That’s the kind of my childhood.
EM:Wow! That’s a really hard situation. So sad story indeed. I feel sorry for you.
Next. Please share about your childhood.
AB:I was born in 1960. My dad died while was just born. So I grew with my poor mom. We were four children. It was really hard for my mom to take care of us alone. She had to brew beers (Kachasu) to manage the needs of our family. So this poverty sent me fast into marriage as a scapegoat. I was married and with my husband assisted my tired mother.
EM:Oh okay. And in that condition, did you attend any form of education?
AB:No way. There was no chance. We had to work in the farms to meet our needs. So I had no opportunity to attend school.
All:Okay, thanks. Now tell me anything you know about the Chikanga Cult? I is well documented that people were being persecuted politically. This was prevalent in Mangochi
Ohmm no idea. Some of us were in Thyolo, hence we didn’t know any of these uprising.
Mmadi:I think I can explain what I heard as I was not born then. People say around the early 1960s close to the independence, Kamuzu Banda was threatened by his colleagues, in the likes of Orton Chirwa, Masauko Chipembere, who came from here Mangochi. So people especially of the MCP thought we are behind Chipembere and hence persecuted us the people of Mangochi. That is what I heard from our elders.
EM: Oh I see. That makes some sense.
Now let us go back to the questions.
Before your men/husbands left for South Africa to work in the mines, did you know anyone who had left or was working there?
MB:Yes I knew of my grandfather who went to work in the mines in South Africa. So my husband came home and made a decision to also go to South Africa to alleviate our poverty. When I agreed, he immediately started the process. He went to the village headman, chief to collect letters to court, then labour office. At labour office, he would be weighed if fit enough to travel. If deemed fit, he would be called later on for the journey to Blantyre where he would be weighed again and undergo various health tests. If all the tests went on well, then he would travel to South Africa. All these tests were done to make sure they are very fit for the hard work in the mines. And if not weighed fit enough, he was sent home and told to eat more proteins, or eat more roasted groundnuts to help gain more weight. As for my husband, was weighed fit, and he knew he was going ahead because he received the blanket that had black and white stripes.
EM:Was that the one they called TCHALE?
MB:No, that was called Chiperone blankets
EM:Where were they receiving these blankets?
MB:At Wenela. From here they left for Msilikazi. At this place, they were also another scrutiny. They were put to other inhumane tests where they had to be naked in front of everyone. My husband complained about this experience. When, they found them fit, they were given a painful injection to make them very hard and strong to fit the conditions in the mines they were heading to. That is what he used to tell me when he returned home.
EM:wow! This is very informative. What about you?
DB:As for me, my husband’s uncle had already gone to South Africa. He was the one who enquired if my husband would also go there so that he could also make money for his family.
EM:Oh, you mean his uncle was already in South Africa?
DB:Exactly. We then thought this is a better option to tackle our family poverty. Though it was difficult to leave, we helped each other to make sure he left for South Africa. With God’s help, he managed to leave and found his uncle there. He wrote me a letter that he arrived well, and received and had started work. The uncle came back a bit ill, and after two months he died. After two years my husband came back home with the money he had made. We settled as a family and enjoyed our lives together.
EM:Ok thanks for sharing. Now how did you meet your husband? (50:00.72)
TS:In my case, we met and got married on 5th February 1972. And guess what in March, he had to leave for WNLA again. So we did not enjoy the marriage that much before he went again for WNLA in South Africa. If anything it remained through the letter exchanges only.
EM:This was necessitated by the husband’s responsibility on you I guess?
TS:Exactly. We had no choice. We were poor. A man must work to feed his family.
EM:Thank you. What about you, Madam?
MB:In my case we met when I was very young. My husband was much older than me. But because of poverty I had to accept him even though I was too young to know a man. In honest, my husband took a good care of me. He brought me up and in the process never touched me waiting for me to grow up. While away he tried to keep in touch through letters, and support he sent to me. He was a very good man. We were married officially in 1980 and started a family. I had my first child in 1983 and in 2014 is when I lost my husband.
EM:Oh! Sorry to hear about his death. How about you Madam?
AB:Ok. We married and barely after two months, he left for South Africa on WNLA. We did not have enough time together, but I understood the need for him to travel. He left me at the house of my mother because I could not live with his aged brother. Though he left me behind, we kept the lines of communications through the letters and financial support.
EM:So when he left on that journey, and you said you were at your parents’ house, did he build you a house to stay?
AB:Not at all. We had no money to build a house for me. I just lived in my family home.
EM:Oh ok. So you were all married when your men left for WNLA in South Africa?
All:All yes we were all married
EM:Now that they left you for South Africa after marrying you, some of you just after a month, two months etc. Did you have any fears for your husbands?
TS:Definitely. My major concern was am sure my friends too had similar fear of them marrying other women in South Africa and forgetting us here.
TS:We thought they could really marry there. But thank God my parents comforted me and encouraged me to have faith that he will come back for me and won’t marry anyone else while there. Indeed he came back and found me intact. And all the children I have are his until his demise in 2000.
EM:So your support system was that instrumental to your commitment to your husband?
TS:Yes, especially our parents would advise us to have faith until our men came back home. They would ask us to imagine the man comes back home to hear stories of infidelity and he decides to marry another woman, and all the blankets, clothes he brought home would go to that woman, when all that would have been mine. So these stories and pieces of advice kept us so faithful and committed.
AB:In my case, I did not have any fears as I was very young and living with my parents. To me he was my superhero who lifted me out of poverty as he was sending money to my family no and again to convince me to remain steadfast and not think of any man but him. And when he came back home from WNLA all what he brought with him left to my family and not to his family. He really loved and respected me. So I could never disappoint him. He even built a house within my family. And he treated me like his sister not his wife then, while waiting for me to mature as a woman. That respect was really something I loved him about. We even started doing piece works when the WNLA money finished. We were madly in love.
AB:So when TEBA started that’s when he decided to go again. But before going he decided that we get married as I was now fully matured to begin a marriage. We got married in 1980 and started a family. That is when he started going to TEBA.
EM:When did you know that your husband was planning to go to South Africa to work in the mines under WNLA? And was your first reaction?
DM:My husband introduced the plan to me verbally. When we agreed, that’s when he started by going to collect the letter from the chief. I reacted well considering the level of poverty we were enduring in the family. I thought that was a very good idea.
AB:We discussed as a family. And I supported the idea which was introduced by our uncle. The level of poverty was the main reason I supported the idea. We knew by going we will be better off just like those who had gone and come back before.
TS:Just like others, we sat down and agreed to the idea. It was not a difficult decision.
MB:We sat down and seeing what we were going through, we decided that as a head of the family, he should also go. We were living in my brother’s house; we also needed to get money to build our own. When he got there, and started work, he sent me money to build our own house. When he came back, he found us in our own house.
EM:So you are all saying you had to sit down as a family to discuss this journey. What was driving you to this discussion?
All:Poverty. It was absolute poverty. Imagine with a child with only a two meter cloth sleeping together. The same piece of cloth was meant to wear during the day, protecting the babe, and at night becoming a blanket to the three of us. To alleviate ourselves from poverty that’s why our men had to leave to work.
EM:Now that all is set for your husband is leaving for South Africa to work in the WNLA mines. What piece of advice did you give him?
DM:I did ask him that as you are heading to South Africa, you are young and I am young too. Won’t you decide to marry another lady there? He said, my wife, I am going to South Africa not to look for a woman to marry but to look for family prosperity. He convinced me that he is only going to chase money not women.
AB:For me, I requested him to bring his parents and that I brought mine too that we confirm in front of our parents our commitment to our marriage. He agreed to that. All parents came and discussed and it was agreed that we all remain faithful to each other despite distance. (1:10:27). We agreed to that and he then left and we never betrayed each other since.
TS:I had the same fear but he assured me that he is only going there to make money to alleviate our family poverty not to look for another woman. And I was convinced and he left.
MB:in my case, our grandparents from both sides came to advise us. They advised him not to chase other skates while in South Africa and to me they asked me not to replace my husband with other men around here. We both vowed not to betray each other. Further, when we came to our bedroom and alone, we reiterated and confirmed out commitment to each other.
EM:It is indeed nice to note the level of commitment that existed between you and your husbands despite the distance and time. I wonder if the new generation can live up to this level of trust and commitment. So how did you feel the day that he was finally leaving for South Africa?
MB:The day he left was the most difficult one. I have several questions. Is he really going? Why can’t he just abandon the journey? Won’t he meet and get enticed by other women while there? All these were some of the questions. However, I thanked God that he arrived safely when he wrote me a letter confirming of his arrival. He also confirmed that he started work well in a mine called Mshongolo (sp).
DB:That was the most difficult day to both of us. In the morning when all was set, I accompanied her to the stage. When he left, I went back home. After few hours I saw him coming back home. I asked what happened. He said, I think I was mistaken of the dates. He told me he would instead leave early in the morning. But I knew my man is not sure of going and leaving me behind.
At night he called to himself, as he was not staying with me yet. He asked me several questions. One was that would I still wait for him and not accept another man to snatch me from him? I told him, no ways. For all you have been doing to me. All the support to me and my family I cannot cheat or run away from you. I am here and will be faithful to you. He then asked me to vow before the bible by beating it. I had to do it to confirm that I am not going to see another man but to wait for him. That was how hard it was to both of us.
EM:Wow! That must have been really hard to both of you.
DB:And in the morning he asked me not to accompany him to the stage. He just left and never came back. I knew that he arrived well, when wrote me a letter. In the letter he reiterated that I should remain steadfast and commit to him only that I should not see any other man. But that was easy for me. I knew love is blood and not money. I had to remain faithful to him.
EM:Wow! That is awesome. Next?
AB:On the day of departure, my husband invited his parents to our home. He told them that he was leaving Ishallah and please look after my wife, her ways and if she is cheating on me. And upon his arrival, he wrote two letters one for me and the other one with instructions that I must not open for his parents. In the letter, he had asked his parents if am cheating on him. The parents replied to him that the lady is very fine and faithful to you. So after two years, he came back and found me the way he had left me, and after few months, I fell pregnant for our first child. That is my story.
EM:Fantastic story. next!
TS:A night before his departure, I prepared warm water for a shower. After that we started talking about our worries, mainly about insecurities in case he marries someone else while away and me falling in love with other men while he is away. But I vowed to him that I won’t do that. He also convinced me not to do likewise. The morning he left as planned.
EM:Oh okay. Great stories to hear. I was thinking at times that men or you women would shed tears when their loved ones were going far away?
All:True, in this case shedding tears was understood as a way of bringing bad luck to the travelling men. So that was why we did not shed tears. But we had to be strong as we could not do anything more.
EM:Is there anyone whose husband left a child on his first journey?
All:No. only after first and others second journey. Remember the first journeys left soon after marriages.
EM:Oh yes that is true. How about after few journeys? Those children how did they feel parting with their fathers?
DM:Children felt missing their fathers. Most fathers used to buy dolls and stuff for kids to be reminded that their fathers love them and care for them. Those dolls and playing games were meant to remember of their fathers till they come back. Some of us used to take pictures with the kids to send to their dads to remember them. That was a really good thing to them being far away.
EM:Now that they have gone to South Africa and have arrived safely, months have passed on. How did you feel? How was it like?
AB:Mostly was filled with expectations. We waited to hear anything from him. So basically was the feeling of waiting as to when he is coming back.
DM:It was for me waiting to hear from him especially through a letter. But when you can’t hear from him to most women with weak minds, meant that the husband has forgotten about her and probably married another woman, when it was not like that. Yes, we heard stories of women getting other men and ignoring their husbands who went to work in the minds simply because of the gulf of communication.
MB:In my case it was about missing my love only. I never thought of ill things at all. I knew he wanted to get there, get settled and then would write me a letter explaining how he travelled. Like first time, he wrote me a letter while doing the training school of how to work in the mines.
TS:My husband sent me a letter when he arrived. He explained how he travelled and made me at ease.
EM:Oh okay. What about the time he just left, what was it like?
TS:It was a bit worrying but just praying. So prayer was instrumental that my husband arrives there safely. Bible was crucial
EM:What are the things that make you think that my husband made a good decision to go to work in the mine in South Africa under WNLA?
MB:The things included the suitcase full of clothes, radio, bicycle, blankets, mattresses, with two pillows one his and one mine. It was really nice. Then I rushed to call his parents, who were there when he was leaving. It was a very momentous time.
So I told them you see he is back as he said he would be.
EM:Was all this from the first journey?
DM:For me was joyful moments as when he arrived he never went to his family but to my house first with all the stuff he brought back. After three days he called me into the room. There were two expand suitcases one for me and one his. He opened them there were full clothes for me and his. Blankets there, mattresses there, folded beds there all for us. There was also one expand suitcase for parents. That suitcase contained clothes for the husband side and my family side. Male clothes well folded on top and female clothes well folded below. He then asked me to pick one folded pieces of clothes for my parents. But then I told him no need of doing that as all the clothes are arranged equally. So I took one pair to his family and another to my parents. Then when I opened my own suitcase, I found all clothes mine. While in his suitcase, there were only few clothes. Honestly I felt very honoured that am really loved by my husband. And till this time, my husband and I had not known each other as a man and woman.
AB:My husband arrived at night. I just heard a knock and I opened the door only to see my husband whom I waited for a long period. I prepared water for him to take a bath. While he was taking a bath, my mother sent a message to my husband’s parents to alert them of the arriving home of their son. We were all full excitement that we met again while with good health. His parents came to our house in the morning. While in bed, my husband presented to me two suitcases. One was meant to be shared between our parents. The other suitcase was ours.
In the morning his parents came, after greetings, they picked aside their son and told him that, your wife was very faithful. He was never seen seeing other men while you were away. Later on, my parents also took him aside, and asked him how did you find our daughter? He said I found her as exactly the way I left. I was also asked by his parents if I have noticed anything in the man? I told them so far nothing has changed. We are both happy with each other. Well, after two months, I fell pregnant and gave birth to our first child, a boy. While he was gone that is when he was born. Then the other kids were born while he was back.
TS:I was told that he is coming by his friends who arrived earlier. Hence, I rushed to inform his parents about his imminent arrival. When he arrived, we welcomed him. He came with a bicycle, radio and four suitcases of which two were divided between my parents and his own. The rest were our own. We were all happy and seen the importance of that journey.
EM:Very exciting stories indeed. Thank you. But can you name one thing that really points out the importance of your husband’s journey to WNLA?
DM:He bought sowing machines, one for my parents, one to his parents, a stereo/zodiac (Gumba-Gumba) music player which was being hired for public events in the village even when he was away. So the machine played a pivotal role in reducing our poverty. The other thing was the house that we built with the money. Those were the most important things that were very profitable and we were grateful to WNLA journeys.
AB:My husband bought a bicycle which was very helpful to both families. We used it for various reasons including business. The maize mills were far away and we had to rely on this bicycle. We also used to transport fruits like oranges, lemons, tangerines and cassava tubes to sell. On top of that, he built a sizeable house for me and my child before building the big house later. So the bicycle and house remain the crucial benefits of WNLA journeys.
TS:My husband built a descent big house, with glasses and nice doors. That remained very crucial.
MB:He bought two bicycles, one to my family and one to his family. He then bought animals. To my family he bought goats and to his family pigs. The bicycle to my family also used to transport my son to school.
EM:If I can reverse the same question. What was the most difficult thing that you experienced while your husband away?
MB:The most difficult challenge was about the loneliness especially when the child fell sick. I had to be taking the baby to the hospital alone. The other thing was felt when he delays to send me some money. It was tough because I would miss the gardening period. I could not get fertilizer on time. But when he sends on time, I would do gardening effectively.
AB:The same loneliness and late sending of money from the husband for support, especially when we have a child or children. We had to be doing piece jobs for survival. This was hard and painful at times. You would wish your man was here.
DM:In my case, the most difficult thing was that when he went away, there was a robbery at my house. This was worrying as I lost personal stuff to assist me and child.
TS:Me I didn’t have anything to worry about as my husband had bought me a garden to which I spent most of my time. So there was not much to think about. Both my father in-law and mother in-law never interrupted me. In honest, I had less worries.
EM:Remind AB did your husband build you a house?
AB:No. he only build when he came back, all along I was living at his family home.
DM:In my case, due to the poverty at my own home, my husband left me at his family home. However, when he came back, he wanted to build a house of his own that is when he built a house away from his family. We settled there.
EM:So this means the three of you were left in the hands of your own families/parents when your men left for WNLA?
EM:So, how were you communicating with the parents/family of your husbands? Was there a bond?
3 women:3 Women: Yes we had a good bond. Our parents always encouraged us to communicate with our husbands’ families. Also when our men used to bring or send money, always remembered them. We always spent some time with them.
EM:Oh that is good to note. You needed that kind of support. Now tell me, knowing that some of you were from different districts when your men were far away at WNLA, were you able to meet with other women whose husbands were also in WNLA?
MB:Oh yes like me we used to meet with others.
EM:Oh okay. What were the issues that you talked about?
MB:We used to ask each other what were our husbands used to send us. Some could be money, property and even building houses. The other issue was encouraging each other to remain committed to our husbands who were far away working for our future.
DM:The issue of commitment was high on the list. I used to encourage and warn other women from infidelity. I used to tell them that if they fall or cheat, their men out there would meet misfortunes like cut their legs, arms even death. So we encouraged each other to remain faithful and pray for our men’s health while working hard in the mines.
EM:So mostly you were encouraging and advising each other?
AB:In my area, we were only three of us. But we were really encouraging each other. We talked less about what our husbands were bringing to avoid envy and jealous among us. We focused on encouraging each other to remain committed to our relationship. We avoided mixing with bad women who could influence us into committing evil. We also knew that if we mess, our husbands’ parents and relative s would report us to our husbands. So we were very careful.
TS:The same with what others have said. We also had a group that helped each other to remain faithful. We had other women who wanted us to go astray but we tried to run away from them. We had to form a group that stood firm and not to follow bad advice. So this group helped to face the challenges of loneliness together.
EM:Wow! So basically those groups were instrumental in you remaining faithful and committed to your husbands?
All:Yes they helped us to stay put and realize our dreams within our families.
EM:That was awesome. Now was there anything that bothered you so much while your husbands were away? Be it from your family or your husbands’ family?
All:Not really. All was okay
DM:In my case, there was one incident that my husband shared to me through the letter that worried me so much. My husband was the driver of the lift in the mines that carried men up and down the mines. So one day there was an accident and many got injured including him. Then, my husband was arrested and put in the cold place where blood would only flow one direction. This worried me that I went some months not eating well. This was few months before he came back home. When he came back he found me very thin. He understood why I was that worried.
EM:Wow! That’s was really a concern not so? Anyone?
AB:My concern was the delay in responding to my letters. However, I was less worried because his parents and my parents were always there encouraging me. But I did raise the issue with him. And he said that don’t worry even if I delay in responding to your letters, you are always part of me, I am always impressed about your attitude towards my parents. They give very good recommendation
EM:So in this case the delay in replying to your letters was your major concern.
TS:As for me, I was worried once when he wrote me a letter explaining what happened in the mine. He said one day, one part of the mine fell down. And many people got injured. So the hard work worried me most.
EM:So how did you respond to him about the hard work and what had happened to him?
TS:I had to calm him down and also told him I am praying for you. So I told him about prayer and its role amidst the hard labour he was going through.
EM:Were there songs that you remember were singing with your friends when your men were away?
MB:Yes we used to sing some songs. One that I remember of by heart is:
“You go through the problems, stop playing with these kids on the block, look at us, we are married to real men who have gone to Teba.” That’s one of the songs we used to sing with other women.
EM:Anyone else with a song?
EM:Ok. Now that your men are busy in South Africa and you were left behind. Tell me how were you communicating to each other?
AB:It was through the letters only. We had no telephones, so letters remained the only mode of communication between us behind and our men.
DM:Like me I knew how to read and write so I did not need to get someone to read for me. So I was really expressing myself to him without any shame. Him too was so flexible and could connect a lot. All the love words came straight without hiding anything. And when I received the letter, I was really having nice sleep.
TS:In my case I was not able to read. So I had my uncle to read and write for me.
EM:Oh really? Was your husband able to read?
TS:No. He was not able to read. But he was also expressing himself in the letters just as I did despite Uncle writing for me. It was really nice.
MB:I did not read or write but I used my sister’s daughter. I was also very expressive. I was not ashamed at all. But my husband knew how write and read. So we could enjoy ourselves through letters. And most of the times he could send a picture in the letter. And I would take the picture place in the blankets and sleep with me. I felt like he was with me in the blankets. And if I had not I lost the photos through the fire-gutted house, I could have shown you.
EM:Fantastic. Let us go the issue of money. Were your husbands sending you money while away?
MB:He used to send money. Almost every month. With the money was to build a house of our own.
DM:Yes he was sending in relation to the things I asked for. So he was sending and I was using that money appropriately.
AB:He used to send me the little to me. Not every month. But what he could manage to send, he was sending.
TS:He used to send me for various purposes. He used to instruct me to share some of the money to my parents, his parents etc. I used to do exactly.
EM:Tell me, would you remember how much he was sending you? Or would remember how much he kept for himself?
TS:He used to send something like 500Kwacha, from it I used to buy my kids clothes, and the rest would share with my and his parents, some for farming in the gardens etc.
DM:Like me, he sent me with a program. Sometimes we used for gardening, basic needs at home. He could give direction for the money he sent. If the money was short, I could inform him and he could consider increasing the next time. And the leftovers I kept for him to see when he came back.
EM:So you could tell him exactly how you used it?
DM:Yes. He found at home that I bought goats, sent children to school etc. he also found some money that was left over.
AB:For me, he bought a bicycle and the money he sent, I used to send my son to school until passed on. But I continued sending the second child to school until he finished Grade8.
TS: I used the money he sent to me to buy goats, and these goats helped me send my children to school. Even when he came back, he was happy to see how these goats helped out at the house with the kids till he died.
EM:I hear some of you built houses with such money. Is there anyone whose house is still standing?
All:No. most fell off due to strong winds and heavy rains. Some of the houses were abandoned when we moved to new settlements
EM:Tell me how it was like when now your husband came back home after two years away?
MB:He arrived around 3pm. When I saw him I rushed to the bath to take a quick bath. I could not show up to him the way I was. After that, I called my grandmother to also alert the parents of my husband to come. When she came, she told me that look my daughter, your man was away, and you were home therefore, you will sleep on your own and him also away from you until we meet parents from both sides.
EM:Wow! Was that some kind of rituals? How did you feel about you both sleeping separately?
MB:Oh I felt very bad. It was difficult to hold on. Imagine I could wake up at night and go to see if he is asleep through the window. I could see where he left his watch etc. that was a sleepless night. In the morning both set of parents came and asked us questions. His parents asked me how did you go? (like did you keep yourself clean?) I responded, yes I am clean. My parents also asked my husband, how was the journey? He also responded, that he travelled well. So they introduced me to my husband. Then my husband brought the clothes and others stuff on the floor in front of everyone. And all the rituals were done, and we became husband and wife.
DB:When he arrived, I went straight to welcome him. I kissed him and brought him in the house. I welcomed him with excitement, while getting warm water ready for his bath. After the bath, it was then the two of us. All the rest will see him only after giving him the best of me. That is how I welcomed my husband. I never gave a chance all the other rituals as the most important thing was us not the others.
AB:I welcomed my husband home. When he gets here I would tell my mother that my husband is here now. He would tell me let him go in that house. All his stuff would be put in that particular house. I prepared water for his bath. Soon after the bath, I would serve him food. If people came, I would tell them now he is not coming out of the house. He is bathing, oh he has gone to the market to take a walk just to make sure spends more time with me. I always wanted to get the treatment which we both missed. In the morning, parents from both sides came. And they welcomed my husband and offered me to him. This was the start of a very fruitful marriage.
EM:Wow! This was great. Next experience please.
TS:As for me, he arrived at night. When I heard he arrived, I welcomed him, gave him a bath, food. He settled inside the house and when his friends came I told them he is tired. I did not want people take him away from me. I waited for him for two good years. In the morning parents came to welcome him back.
EM:Now let us continue from where left off. Now that you have welcomed your husbands who were away for two years, was there something that you noticed to be very painful or difficult for you?
DM:There was not necessarily anything painful, though there was something going on in my mind. The thing is that my husband could tell that I was really waiting for him but as a woman I could not tell if he was faithful and didn’t sleep with any other woman. That somehow worried me.
AB:It is true what my friend is sharing. It was a bit difficult to get used to my man. It took time. Remember, we were when we got married. And that he left right after marriage, so we hardly knew each other. However, it took me at least three weeks to get used to him.
TS:For me it took a few weeks to get used to my man. I had no issues really. He was charming and calm. So I could not complain of anything.
MB:The pain was from being told to sleep away from each other. That was hell. How can they separate you from your husband who has just arrived from SA? That was something very insensitive to me.
EM:Wasn’t there any conflict based on the property that your husband brought? That he advised to share some to your parents and other to his parents?
All:Not all. He shared equally well so no disputes. After all, my husband is what he is because of his parents.
DM:In my case, I used to live at his father’s place. So there was nothing to worry at all. I did not mind about the materials things except him. I needed just him, whom I missed so much. So he came back safely it was me thanking God for his safe return. Others met a lot of misfortunes in the mines, stories got to us but seeing him alive was all what we need to do.
MB:My husband used to tell me a lot of hard work. He said he work like Chain Boy who could break the stones in the middle. He used to walk with white guy as his boss who would tell him which stone to break. So when he came back alive to me was prayer of thanksgiving to God.
DM:I forgot something. He told me on the way up or down they used a cape. When that got broken, others could break their legs, arms etc. But these stories would not come in the early days until after a warm welcome back home. This could take some weeks. We needed to enjoy ourselves first before thinking of those hard stories.
AB:My husband also said something about the abuse of the foreigners by the locals (South Africans). They abused Malawians who were hard workers and loved by their bosses. They were called many names.
EM:Would you tell me the names that your husbands were called by the natives?
AB:The natives were called themselves, ‘mzika’ meaning natives but everyone else were called foreigner. But they had to work hard considering where they came from there is absolute poverty. They had little choice. But they survived all of these abuses because of determination and our prayers back home. We prayed for them unceasingly.
TS:The story is almost similar. There was hard labour in the mines. And that they survived all these atrocities simply because of the mercy of God.
EM:Thanks for sharing. Now that they stayed home for a month or more with you, friends, environment etc, was there a wish to return to South Africa (WNLA) to face up to the same hardship?
DM:My husband wanted to go back. And that WNLA was about to finish, he had no choice but to go back so as to accomplish his heart desire, including feeding his family and starting his marriage. And I was not worried as he was a faithful man. He knew there were so many diseases out there and the advent of HIV, he took a good care of himself. I also realized that with him going, both our problems can be solved and for that he had my blessings.
EM:That’s great. Anyone who wants to add to this?
MB:My husband only went once and then WNLA closed. So when TEBA came, he decided to go. Then, when he came back from his first TEBA journey, his boss (white man) sent him warrant that he goes back to work there. So he had no choice.
AB:My husband also had to go back considering our problems did not finish with the first journey. So I was left to raise the kids, and farming in the garden. He went there and because of working diligently, his bosses had no issues with him going back. He left and wrote us letters when he arrived there, and sent back some money when he could to serve our family.
TS:The motivating factor was the poverty was not completely eradicated. It was still there. With the money he brought from the first journey going to an end, he knew he had to go back. He didn’t want to go back to the memories of not being able to have money. So we had no choice but to let him go.
EM:Oh great. Did you encourage them to go back?
All:Yes we did, there was no other option due to level of poverty
DM:In my case I was about to let him not to go back considering that I had just started the marriage. So I wanted him more. He just broke my virginity and the bond was so strong that leaving me behind was not ideal. So he stayed a bit longer till I felt pregnant. Then I let him go.
EM:So finally he had to leave and was this WNLA or TEBA?
DM:Remember, he only went for one WNLA journey and this time around was TEBA. So he had to go since he has left me as a woman this time around. And even when the children were then born in the period of TEBA, I still remember one thing that my husband bought me while as his girl-friend. This remains the best ever gift he bout me while in South Africa under WNLA.
EM:Wow! What would this gift be? Are you free to mention it here?
DM:Oh it was a beautiful dress. I kept this dress and shown to my kids. It was older than my children imagine.
EM:This dress is very significant not so?
DM:Yes, I wore it even at the wedding invitations. I also did it at my own wedding. I still have pictures of people offering their gifts to us. And I can’t challenge you; no one had that dress especially the material. It was absolutely beautiful.
EM:Wow that’s memorable. Is it possible to get a copy of the picture through Mr. Mmadi?
DM:Yes he can come and get them.
EM:Anyone with pictures that would share please do so.
All:Some of us have lost them with resettlements.
EM:Ok. Now, you may have heard from your husbands or other people about the hardships in the mines. About the accidents, even deaths etc., TB and other diseases. Were you not concerned to let them go back still?
DM:True, we heard a lot of these dangers. But we had little power to stop them from going. Like my husband never got sick in connection to WNLA, or TEBA not at all. He died of a different disease that is not connected to the mines.
MB:My husband never died of any disease that is connected to the mines. He died of normal disease. So there was no danger that I can name of.
EM:Oh okay. So in 1974 WNLA stopped due to the plane crash. How did you feel when you heard about this closure?
MB:It was very hard because of our poverty. How were we going to survive with children without WNLA? It was going to be very hard indeed. It changed our lifestyle as well.
DM:I supported government’s idea of stopping WNLA as that was a huge accident and loss. I imagined my husband was in that plane, wouldn’t it mean the end of my happiness? So to sympathize with those who lost their loved ones, we had to agree to the closure despite our poverty. We knew that later on when it is safe again, government will reopen. And TEBA came and this opened new chapters for many Malawians.
AB:I personally felt bad because WNLA was the only hope for us. But also the death of many people was difficult to accept. We had hope though that one day the doors will open again, and our men will be able to travel safely. TEBA came and many of those who travelled with WNLA traveled with TEBA when it was opened to replace WNLA.
TS:I felt sorry for the loss of many people. And it was not in our hands anymore but the government. We were worried though of our future with the closure.
EM:Alright. You were very concerned with such closure?
TS:Yes, because of the level of our poverty. What else would our men do to support their families.
EM:Alright. Now we are very close to the end of our discussion. Before I close let me recap. I began by introducing myself to you, you introduced yourselves to me. Thereafter, I made it clear to you what this research is all about. I also asked of your consent to allow us to record the discussion, publish this discussion in the book, online and other publications. You all gave me your consent. We are doing all this to preserve these stories, these treasures. If well preserved, our children, our grand-children will have full access to these stories, this set of knowledge for academia and other stakeholders.
Finally, I want to ask you again if you agree that we can continue to use this data as prescribed above?
All:Yes we agree, please go ahead.
EM:Thank you so much for your time, please I wish you a safe journey back home especially some of you who came here from long distances.
Mmadi:Sorry, I wanted to pass on the message from these women, and their children. They want to request you if possible to provide a platform, for children whose fathers left them young, grew up in the absence of their fathers. They like their mothers have a point or stories to they would love to share with you. They too want to be listened to by you researchers.
EM:Thank you so much for raising this point. We may have ignored such point. I will sit down with my superiors if the find it worth or rich to their enquiry, and funds permitting, I will definitely come back to you, Sir for organization and arrangement.
